Noah, this may be the favorite thing I have read from you so far. And that is saying something because I love everything you write. As a neurologist (which I would contend is a neurodivergent occupation) and mom to two gals who certainly could be described as neurodivergent, I have been following this debate about whether Elon is autistic with some consternation. I think you have summed it up.
It took having tik tok feeding me stuff to find out that an autistic trait is taking things literally. When I first heard someone say that there's a connection there it was like a lightbulb went off for me. I can't count how many times my wife has wondered why I take things literally, rarely want to leave the house, or play the same video game over and over.
I mean she has a cousin who is on the "can't really function on their own" side of the spectrum so it's not like she doesn't understand that autism is a thing. But I guess I'm "normal" enough on most stuff that it didn't click for her that I could be on the lower end of the spectrum. I think it has helped me a bit to see so many other people on tik tok talk about what they experience and how it's so similar to some things I experience.
Thank you for this, Noah, what a great explainer. I believe Musk has also said he lacks empathy — which if true is an indicator of sociopathy. Just as a person can be both neurotypical and sociopathic, Musk can be both neurodivergent and a sociopath. His behavior certainly suggests he is.
yeah; the claim that people on the spectrum lack empathy is I think a lie and a misunderstanding. people on the spectrum can behave in ways which make others think they lack empathy—or in other words, people often lack empathy for people on the spectrum.
but that's neither here nor there for musk, whose problem is not autism, and not even really lack of empathy. his problem is that he's a Nazi.
The majority of people in my family are some degree of neurodivergent, which not surprisingly suggests that genetics is involved. Having neurodivergence in the human gene pool probably helped humans survived through the eons. It makes society more adaptable than if everyone’s brain was wired the same way. My son, who has medical diagnoses for both autism and ADHD, likes to say that the problem with autism in today’s world is that there aren’t enough job openings for shepherds. It’s tongue in cheek, but if you need someone to take the flock to the high pasture for six months at a year, people on the autism spectrum are likely candidates for the job.
Self-id is legitimate and becoming more important as RFK ramps up his attacks. I would not want anything in my medical file that could put me at risk of getting on a registry of any kind.
It’s crazy to me that people would equate autism with lack of a moral center- I guess if you’ve never known an autistic person, a bunch of assumptions could be made. Musk is a dangerous and deplorable human being, regardless of the autism.
We need a lot of different kinds of minds to have a functioning society that moves forward. Maybe that’s what RFK is afraid of.
I agree with the importance of self diagnosis and everything you said about neruodivergence not being an excuse or causal of evil BUT I can also see how Elon could have a combo of ADHD (hyperfocus, his inability to be still, his imaginative (if not delusional) ideas, taking on too many projects, sleep issues, struggles with depression, poor impulse control) and antisocial personality disorder (narcissism) and he is misdiagnosing it as autism because he thinks its a get out of jail free card for being a pos. It's not that he misreads social cues he just doesn't give a shit about how his actions impact others or even understand that other people exist as something other than objects in his world. Calling yourself autistic is alot more palatable and socially acceptable than admitting or being able to see that you're a narcissist.
It's only a correlation, doesn't mean all Nazis are autistic any more than it proves all on the ASD are Nazis. Correlation proves nothing. I am 72, have struggled with self concepts, and finally about a year ago a friend (medical field but not qualified to give a "real" diagnosis) pointed out that I am probably a classic example of what used to be Asperger's, a not so nice name as you pointed out.
Applying anything good to Elon in an attempt to make him look heroic is like saying I'm good, I know how to walk, Elon can walk, so he must be good. Logic flaws are ripe for the picking there :)
A few years ago I was in a residential for severe chronic depression and agoraphobia. There were quite a few people there with Autism from both ends of the spectrum. What I noticed is that some of them tend to focus on one thing that they are a genius in. The only tell I’m aware of is their social skills. There was one girl who was a member or Mensa. They are like all of us, they can be generous and loving. Or they can be complete sociopaths just like people who aren’t autistic. It’s more like they have a wire crossed, then they are complete imbeciles. They are just like the rest of us. They can be super religious or complete psychopaths or both at the same time.
Thanks for unpacking these issues. You help others understand how conflating Elon’s autism and horribleness gives cover for his destructiveness.
Noah, this may be the favorite thing I have read from you so far. And that is saying something because I love everything you write. As a neurologist (which I would contend is a neurodivergent occupation) and mom to two gals who certainly could be described as neurodivergent, I have been following this debate about whether Elon is autistic with some consternation. I think you have summed it up.
It took having tik tok feeding me stuff to find out that an autistic trait is taking things literally. When I first heard someone say that there's a connection there it was like a lightbulb went off for me. I can't count how many times my wife has wondered why I take things literally, rarely want to leave the house, or play the same video game over and over.
I mean she has a cousin who is on the "can't really function on their own" side of the spectrum so it's not like she doesn't understand that autism is a thing. But I guess I'm "normal" enough on most stuff that it didn't click for her that I could be on the lower end of the spectrum. I think it has helped me a bit to see so many other people on tik tok talk about what they experience and how it's so similar to some things I experience.
And always, fuck Elon Musk.
Thank you for this, Noah, what a great explainer. I believe Musk has also said he lacks empathy — which if true is an indicator of sociopathy. Just as a person can be both neurotypical and sociopathic, Musk can be both neurodivergent and a sociopath. His behavior certainly suggests he is.
yeah; the claim that people on the spectrum lack empathy is I think a lie and a misunderstanding. people on the spectrum can behave in ways which make others think they lack empathy—or in other words, people often lack empathy for people on the spectrum.
but that's neither here nor there for musk, whose problem is not autism, and not even really lack of empathy. his problem is that he's a Nazi.
For real! I have a dear friend who is on the spectrum and she is one of the most compassionate, empathic people I know.
The majority of people in my family are some degree of neurodivergent, which not surprisingly suggests that genetics is involved. Having neurodivergence in the human gene pool probably helped humans survived through the eons. It makes society more adaptable than if everyone’s brain was wired the same way. My son, who has medical diagnoses for both autism and ADHD, likes to say that the problem with autism in today’s world is that there aren’t enough job openings for shepherds. It’s tongue in cheek, but if you need someone to take the flock to the high pasture for six months at a year, people on the autism spectrum are likely candidates for the job.
Self-id is legitimate and becoming more important as RFK ramps up his attacks. I would not want anything in my medical file that could put me at risk of getting on a registry of any kind.
It’s crazy to me that people would equate autism with lack of a moral center- I guess if you’ve never known an autistic person, a bunch of assumptions could be made. Musk is a dangerous and deplorable human being, regardless of the autism.
We need a lot of different kinds of minds to have a functioning society that moves forward. Maybe that’s what RFK is afraid of.
I agree with the importance of self diagnosis and everything you said about neruodivergence not being an excuse or causal of evil BUT I can also see how Elon could have a combo of ADHD (hyperfocus, his inability to be still, his imaginative (if not delusional) ideas, taking on too many projects, sleep issues, struggles with depression, poor impulse control) and antisocial personality disorder (narcissism) and he is misdiagnosing it as autism because he thinks its a get out of jail free card for being a pos. It's not that he misreads social cues he just doesn't give a shit about how his actions impact others or even understand that other people exist as something other than objects in his world. Calling yourself autistic is alot more palatable and socially acceptable than admitting or being able to see that you're a narcissist.
I mean, his original self ID came in like 2022, and the things he talked about were mostly things that autistic people do struggle with.
idk. to me his self ID seems very reasonable. what seems unreasaonble are his evil acts.
Being unusually committed to one's principles is an autistic trait. Sometimes that principle is eugenics.
It's only a correlation, doesn't mean all Nazis are autistic any more than it proves all on the ASD are Nazis. Correlation proves nothing. I am 72, have struggled with self concepts, and finally about a year ago a friend (medical field but not qualified to give a "real" diagnosis) pointed out that I am probably a classic example of what used to be Asperger's, a not so nice name as you pointed out.
Applying anything good to Elon in an attempt to make him look heroic is like saying I'm good, I know how to walk, Elon can walk, so he must be good. Logic flaws are ripe for the picking there :)
A few years ago I was in a residential for severe chronic depression and agoraphobia. There were quite a few people there with Autism from both ends of the spectrum. What I noticed is that some of them tend to focus on one thing that they are a genius in. The only tell I’m aware of is their social skills. There was one girl who was a member or Mensa. They are like all of us, they can be generous and loving. Or they can be complete sociopaths just like people who aren’t autistic. It’s more like they have a wire crossed, then they are complete imbeciles. They are just like the rest of us. They can be super religious or complete psychopaths or both at the same time.
For those with a couple of minutes and the ability to laugh, go here:
https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations