To Klein’s defense of writing the piece about Charlie Kirk, Coates responded: ‘Silence wasn’t an option?’ This is the issue I see with Klein-it’s always about him. You see it in his interview style, where his wind-ups to questions are long and self-centred, as if he has no real interest in the views or facts the interviewee has to offer. And here, on this topic, no he couldn’t pass it up. Because writing about it will make him the center of attention. It was a hot topic. Couldn’t sit it out.
I don’t doubt that he reads a lot and is curious on a wide range of subjects. That doesn’t preclude him from wilful ignorance for profit.
Thank you for picking apart another common assumption that just never sat right with me. So many educated and smart people are t supporters! Well, duh, they are CHOOSING to lie and be lied to, to bracket their learning for comfort or power. You have made it make sense for me, thank you.
You did see what Elie Mystal said about Klein on Bluesky after Klein published his wildly inappropriate Charlie Kirk piece, no? It applies to soooo many people.
"Ezra Klein is really out here making it seem like whiteness is some intellectually crippling shit."
Klein seems really pained in this discussion with Coates. My latest complaint is about Klein babbling about abortion rights and how that's not something Dems should have as part of their message to voters. Grrrrr! Thank you, privileged, white, male🤬🤬🤬
Having one's consciousness raised can be instructive and mind-opening OR it's frightening and risky.
I'm really glad that I watched that conversation just before I went to therapy, because hoooo boy did I have a lot to say about it. It must be so nice to be able to get paid to write and say the kind of ignorant bullshit that Klein does and somehow learn absolutely nothing from it.
Thanks for this because it's something I've thought about a lot recently. It's not like conservatives/fascists/etc. have different mental capacities than the rest of us. In general there doesn't seem to be a lot of variation between humans in that regard. There's outliers like with anything for sure.
But it seems kind of sneaking into a eugenics thing to say "fascists are stupid" instead of "fascists make people stupid". Cause the former is implying some innate difference that can't be controlled. So they're without agency and we just have to live with this fact, which is disturbing. Whereas the latter acknowledges that it's the ideas, like racism, that are poisoning the ability to think clearly and with a solid moral foundation. And that thankfully can change, albeit with a lot of difficulty at this point.
Hadn't thought of it this way before. I'd been puzzled by well-educated Trumpers -- at least, Trumpers who had degrees from prestigious academic institutions. Now it's making more sense for me. And Coates is a great thinker and writer, period. Thank you, Noah!
"I’m not saying Ezra Klein is equivalent to Trump, or that he’s as ignorant as Trump."
Oh, go ahead and say it! Ezra Klein DESERVES to be punished for trying to valorize Charlie Kirk!
There are an awful lot of "smart" people (well-educated, come from "good families" or have other advantages) who support the Trumpian Right, or support those who support it, because it's profitable for them to. Why would Ron DeSantis, a retired Naval Officer as well as a graduate of both Yale and Harvard, support Trumpism (as opposed to Trump himself, who can't decide from one minute to the next what he wants other than incessant validation)? It's possible to be a conservative and not find yourself constantly tossing red meat to the jackals of the "Moral Majority"/Tea Party/MAGA mob—or at least it WAS, back before the Republican Party handed Ronald Reagan their spines in exchange for power back in 1980, and never asked for them back.
It's like all those industrialists in Germany who put Hitler into power because "He's a silly little peasant—we can control him." Only they couldn't because they underestimated his popularity and ability to sway the mob in his direction—something the "smart set" tends to do a lot.
Just got around to this, Noah, and I wanted to thank you for summing it up so well. I've long described Trump as “aggressively ignorant,” but your explanation really puts that in context with the MAGA movement. Not the mostly disconnected types who swung for him, but the true believers.
I'm also tired of Internet Atheists™ who claim that the Trumpers’ religiosity accounts for their “stupidity,” because they have believed in bullshit their whole lives. Well, I'm not a believer, either, and the golden-calf treatment Trump gets disturbs me, but I also know that thinking you're too smart to be conned makes you a wonderful mark, and that confirmation bias is a helluva drug.
To Klein’s defense of writing the piece about Charlie Kirk, Coates responded: ‘Silence wasn’t an option?’ This is the issue I see with Klein-it’s always about him. You see it in his interview style, where his wind-ups to questions are long and self-centred, as if he has no real interest in the views or facts the interviewee has to offer. And here, on this topic, no he couldn’t pass it up. Because writing about it will make him the center of attention. It was a hot topic. Couldn’t sit it out.
I don’t doubt that he reads a lot and is curious on a wide range of subjects. That doesn’t preclude him from wilful ignorance for profit.
Excellent!
Thank you for picking apart another common assumption that just never sat right with me. So many educated and smart people are t supporters! Well, duh, they are CHOOSING to lie and be lied to, to bracket their learning for comfort or power. You have made it make sense for me, thank you.
You did see what Elie Mystal said about Klein on Bluesky after Klein published his wildly inappropriate Charlie Kirk piece, no? It applies to soooo many people.
"Ezra Klein is really out here making it seem like whiteness is some intellectually crippling shit."
Elie for the win!
oh, that’s a fine point. I talked aobut something similar a bit back. https://www.everythingishorrible.net/p/white-supremacy-leads-people-to-swallow
Excellent article ‼️🔊🔊🔊
Klein seems really pained in this discussion with Coates. My latest complaint is about Klein babbling about abortion rights and how that's not something Dems should have as part of their message to voters. Grrrrr! Thank you, privileged, white, male🤬🤬🤬
Having one's consciousness raised can be instructive and mind-opening OR it's frightening and risky.
I'm really glad that I watched that conversation just before I went to therapy, because hoooo boy did I have a lot to say about it. It must be so nice to be able to get paid to write and say the kind of ignorant bullshit that Klein does and somehow learn absolutely nothing from it.
Thanks for this because it's something I've thought about a lot recently. It's not like conservatives/fascists/etc. have different mental capacities than the rest of us. In general there doesn't seem to be a lot of variation between humans in that regard. There's outliers like with anything for sure.
But it seems kind of sneaking into a eugenics thing to say "fascists are stupid" instead of "fascists make people stupid". Cause the former is implying some innate difference that can't be controlled. So they're without agency and we just have to live with this fact, which is disturbing. Whereas the latter acknowledges that it's the ideas, like racism, that are poisoning the ability to think clearly and with a solid moral foundation. And that thankfully can change, albeit with a lot of difficulty at this point.
Hadn't thought of it this way before. I'd been puzzled by well-educated Trumpers -- at least, Trumpers who had degrees from prestigious academic institutions. Now it's making more sense for me. And Coates is a great thinker and writer, period. Thank you, Noah!
"I’m not saying Ezra Klein is equivalent to Trump, or that he’s as ignorant as Trump."
Oh, go ahead and say it! Ezra Klein DESERVES to be punished for trying to valorize Charlie Kirk!
There are an awful lot of "smart" people (well-educated, come from "good families" or have other advantages) who support the Trumpian Right, or support those who support it, because it's profitable for them to. Why would Ron DeSantis, a retired Naval Officer as well as a graduate of both Yale and Harvard, support Trumpism (as opposed to Trump himself, who can't decide from one minute to the next what he wants other than incessant validation)? It's possible to be a conservative and not find yourself constantly tossing red meat to the jackals of the "Moral Majority"/Tea Party/MAGA mob—or at least it WAS, back before the Republican Party handed Ronald Reagan their spines in exchange for power back in 1980, and never asked for them back.
It's like all those industrialists in Germany who put Hitler into power because "He's a silly little peasant—we can control him." Only they couldn't because they underestimated his popularity and ability to sway the mob in his direction—something the "smart set" tends to do a lot.
Just got around to this, Noah, and I wanted to thank you for summing it up so well. I've long described Trump as “aggressively ignorant,” but your explanation really puts that in context with the MAGA movement. Not the mostly disconnected types who swung for him, but the true believers.
I'm also tired of Internet Atheists™ who claim that the Trumpers’ religiosity accounts for their “stupidity,” because they have believed in bullshit their whole lives. Well, I'm not a believer, either, and the golden-calf treatment Trump gets disturbs me, but I also know that thinking you're too smart to be conned makes you a wonderful mark, and that confirmation bias is a helluva drug.