Sadly, I have to agree with you. The support for Platner should make it clear that there is a wide open lane for plain spoken, working class candidates. There’s got to be a few without such problematic pasts.
I think the plain spoken thing is something that doesn't get talked about enough in terms of candidate appeal across both parties. Or put a different way, someone who can speak without sounding like they're full of shit. AOC and Bernie Sanders do it, and maybe a few other Democrats do. I think Obama mostly did. Biden kind of would slip up and say what he really thought sometimes and it made him at least less disliked by leftists like me than the average centrist Democrat.
Paradoxically, I think Trump does *for Republicans*. He speaks with enough open bigotry that it signals he's on the same page as them but with enough dog whistles that the media can justify not freaking out about it.
I don't think some plain spoken person Democrat who isn't seen as a normal politician is enough to break through partisanship and win landslide elections. But it could be enough to swing the small number of undecideds who probably value that kind of thing over policy positions.
I fear should this guy get elected he would be another loose cannon like Federman He sounded great on paper, yet Noah is right the tattoo and the texts uncovered would make him unelectable bc many won’t trust him now
Yeah—I get people can change (I certainly did!), but there's "I used to work for Troma, and a lot of our humor back then was meant to be offensive" (as happened to former Marvel filmmaker/current DCU architect James Gunn), and "Hello, I have a Death's Head tattoo and a social media history of bigoted comments!" (which is what's coming out with Platner).
James Gunn also isn't running for Senate, he's making superhero movies.
Thank you for this brief and clear-eyed explanation of your recommendation that Platner drop out. I agree completely, for exactly the reasons you provide. We can't afford to waste resources on candidates we find appealing (or, appealing-ish) but will not win. I hope Platner supports whomever the Senate nominee is and finds a way to rally his fans to do the same. Every one of us has a role in this fight. Sometimes it's just not the one we wanted or expected, but if we do what is right and necessary, we can prevail.
I have to disagree with you here. He should run and either win or lose. That's the only way to get a candidate that can beat Susan Collins. If his enthusiastic supporters feels like he got knocked out unfairly by oppo research, it will really hurt Janet Mills in the general election. If he loses the primary, whoever wins will be much more acceptable to the Democratic base. Also, I don't believe he was thinking about Nazi symbolism when he got the tattoo.
Disagree absent more info than I’ve been able to find on what he said….The comments I read were mostly benign or funny and the most egregious being, “you shouldn’t get black out drunk to prevent rape “that sounded harsh and victim blaming-in the rest it was disqualifying to the establishment (saying he did drugs and was a communist and shitting on police after George Floyd) but he’s been pro human rights/Palestinian and anti our current economic and political system that fucks the working poor his whole life. He’s a veteran and successful business man. Is calling a skull and bones tattoo, absent annnnnny other anti Semitic comments, posts, writings (when he clearly was not guarded on those), a “Nazi tattoo” fair? I, and most people would just assume it was a commonplace skull and bones. Just like a sunset tattoo is not the sonnenrad? Symbol absent other speech and context…. This all feels like a smear campaign for his pro Palestinian and pro worker stance just like saying mamdani supported “globalize the intifada” and was pro Hamas, which was utter bullshit. Also being nearly 80 is a HUUUUGE liability in the senate not something to be waived off.
This is a tough take to swallow. Coalition building is going to look messy and require stomaching some bitter shit to get it done. I hate that he wrote those things and that he has that tattoo. Of course.
But has he been in a position of power and exploited people? Has he committed violent hate crimes or sexually harassed anyone? As far as I can tell, no.
With the propagation of new nazis, likely correlating with a rise in Nazi tattoos, I hope the party can be a safe landing place for people who change their mind. Furthermore, I hope the party can promote those people and handle the nuance of a checkered past + a bright future as a leader.
If not, where will the Platners (of which we want more not less!!) go to explore their penchant for leadership? Isn't this the kind of leftist elitism that continually reverberates around the far right echo chamber?
Having a Nazi tattoo is not a sign of working class authenticity. Nazis want you to think it is, but that is a lie.
Most working class ppl do not have Nazi tattoos. Many working class ppl are lgbt, and Black, and marginalized, and do not want to be represented by someone who says racist and sexist things and who has a Nazi tattoo.
His history is super troubling. In no way am I arguing that Nazi tattoo = bonafide blue collar.
He fits the profile of someone who is often swept up in that ideology when they're young. They are 50% of the MAGA voting block. Let's hope that at least some of them have the cognitive flexibility to rebound once the cult loses its its grip.
I would hope that, as a coalition, inclusive of the marginalized minority blocks, we could hold all these things as true for any former-MAGA or former cop, former ICE agent, whatever the sin: 1) This guy used to hold radically hateful views. 2) This guy has evolved (we hope. Recognizing that this will always be a scary leap of faith). 3) This guy is welcome in the fold and welcome to use his gifts where they can be most effective.
I'm curious, are you arguing that he should not be senator or that he won't win because his past is too checkered?
Ok, understood. So how many constituents is one allowed to represent and at what level of government are they allowed to operate if they have a history like his?
I mean, I don't think there needs to be a rule book. But failing to disclose massive problems with your candidacy while running for one of the most important senate races in the country raises a lot of reasonable questions about your honesty and fitness, and I think he should drop out.
I don't know that I'd vote for him for dogcatcher at this point myself, but if he's determined to enter public service and wants to try to explain himself to a smaller electorate with a lot less at stake...I don't need to get upset at that.
Hey, I appreciate your take. I’m still on the fence about it all, but I’m not a Maine voter so my position doesn’t matter.
Leftists and progressives got out the gate early with the narrative that Mills’ entrance into the race was more of the supposed “establishment” conspiracy to prevent younger and more progressive “outsiders” from leading the party. So that’s an issue. As is Mills’ contribution to the perception of the party as a gerontocracy in which congresspersons die in office and leave us without crucial votes.
Can you clarify about the “racist” posts/comments that Platner allegedly made on social media? I looked at the article you linked to and it appeared to only refer to a comment that “white people are stupid and racist,” which I don’t think is a racist thing to say. It’s more like what I’d expect someone like Platner, who has a rough-around-the-edges persona, to say, which makes him sound like a normal person of a leftist bent.
Did he say something else racist?
I’m aware of the disrespectful comment about women servicemembers and s*xual assault.
Sadly, I have to agree with you. The support for Platner should make it clear that there is a wide open lane for plain spoken, working class candidates. There’s got to be a few without such problematic pasts.
I think the plain spoken thing is something that doesn't get talked about enough in terms of candidate appeal across both parties. Or put a different way, someone who can speak without sounding like they're full of shit. AOC and Bernie Sanders do it, and maybe a few other Democrats do. I think Obama mostly did. Biden kind of would slip up and say what he really thought sometimes and it made him at least less disliked by leftists like me than the average centrist Democrat.
Paradoxically, I think Trump does *for Republicans*. He speaks with enough open bigotry that it signals he's on the same page as them but with enough dog whistles that the media can justify not freaking out about it.
I don't think some plain spoken person Democrat who isn't seen as a normal politician is enough to break through partisanship and win landslide elections. But it could be enough to swing the small number of undecideds who probably value that kind of thing over policy positions.
Janet Mills impressed me when she stood up to Trump. I hope she wins.
since I posted this, more revelations about him using ugly anti gay slurs like six years ago.
I fear should this guy get elected he would be another loose cannon like Federman He sounded great on paper, yet Noah is right the tattoo and the texts uncovered would make him unelectable bc many won’t trust him now
Yeah—I get people can change (I certainly did!), but there's "I used to work for Troma, and a lot of our humor back then was meant to be offensive" (as happened to former Marvel filmmaker/current DCU architect James Gunn), and "Hello, I have a Death's Head tattoo and a social media history of bigoted comments!" (which is what's coming out with Platner).
James Gunn also isn't running for Senate, he's making superhero movies.
Oh no, I donated to this guy in September via ActBlue. Thanks for the heads up.
Thank you for this brief and clear-eyed explanation of your recommendation that Platner drop out. I agree completely, for exactly the reasons you provide. We can't afford to waste resources on candidates we find appealing (or, appealing-ish) but will not win. I hope Platner supports whomever the Senate nominee is and finds a way to rally his fans to do the same. Every one of us has a role in this fight. Sometimes it's just not the one we wanted or expected, but if we do what is right and necessary, we can prevail.
I have to disagree with you here. He should run and either win or lose. That's the only way to get a candidate that can beat Susan Collins. If his enthusiastic supporters feels like he got knocked out unfairly by oppo research, it will really hurt Janet Mills in the general election. If he loses the primary, whoever wins will be much more acceptable to the Democratic base. Also, I don't believe he was thinking about Nazi symbolism when he got the tattoo.
Disagree absent more info than I’ve been able to find on what he said….The comments I read were mostly benign or funny and the most egregious being, “you shouldn’t get black out drunk to prevent rape “that sounded harsh and victim blaming-in the rest it was disqualifying to the establishment (saying he did drugs and was a communist and shitting on police after George Floyd) but he’s been pro human rights/Palestinian and anti our current economic and political system that fucks the working poor his whole life. He’s a veteran and successful business man. Is calling a skull and bones tattoo, absent annnnnny other anti Semitic comments, posts, writings (when he clearly was not guarded on those), a “Nazi tattoo” fair? I, and most people would just assume it was a commonplace skull and bones. Just like a sunset tattoo is not the sonnenrad? Symbol absent other speech and context…. This all feels like a smear campaign for his pro Palestinian and pro worker stance just like saying mamdani supported “globalize the intifada” and was pro Hamas, which was utter bullshit. Also being nearly 80 is a HUUUUGE liability in the senate not something to be waived off.
He’s got a Nazi tattoo and has said sexist and racist shit. He also seems to be lying about how long he’s known it was a Nazi tattoo.
That’s enough for me. There are other candidates. We don’t need to die for this guys redemption arc.
This is a tough take to swallow. Coalition building is going to look messy and require stomaching some bitter shit to get it done. I hate that he wrote those things and that he has that tattoo. Of course.
But has he been in a position of power and exploited people? Has he committed violent hate crimes or sexually harassed anyone? As far as I can tell, no.
With the propagation of new nazis, likely correlating with a rise in Nazi tattoos, I hope the party can be a safe landing place for people who change their mind. Furthermore, I hope the party can promote those people and handle the nuance of a checkered past + a bright future as a leader.
If not, where will the Platners (of which we want more not less!!) go to explore their penchant for leadership? Isn't this the kind of leftist elitism that continually reverberates around the far right echo chamber?
Having a Nazi tattoo is not a sign of working class authenticity. Nazis want you to think it is, but that is a lie.
Most working class ppl do not have Nazi tattoos. Many working class ppl are lgbt, and Black, and marginalized, and do not want to be represented by someone who says racist and sexist things and who has a Nazi tattoo.
His history is super troubling. In no way am I arguing that Nazi tattoo = bonafide blue collar.
He fits the profile of someone who is often swept up in that ideology when they're young. They are 50% of the MAGA voting block. Let's hope that at least some of them have the cognitive flexibility to rebound once the cult loses its its grip.
I would hope that, as a coalition, inclusive of the marginalized minority blocks, we could hold all these things as true for any former-MAGA or former cop, former ICE agent, whatever the sin: 1) This guy used to hold radically hateful views. 2) This guy has evolved (we hope. Recognizing that this will always be a scary leap of faith). 3) This guy is welcome in the fold and welcome to use his gifts where they can be most effective.
I'm curious, are you arguing that he should not be senator or that he won't win because his past is too checkered?
I think he should not be senator, and I do not think he can win.
I think we can welcome people without making them senator.
How about a member of the House? State Senator or Rep?
Where and how would we draw that line?
If he wants to run for some state office and can get people to vote for him, go for it.
Ok, understood. So how many constituents is one allowed to represent and at what level of government are they allowed to operate if they have a history like his?
I mean, I don't think there needs to be a rule book. But failing to disclose massive problems with your candidacy while running for one of the most important senate races in the country raises a lot of reasonable questions about your honesty and fitness, and I think he should drop out.
I don't know that I'd vote for him for dogcatcher at this point myself, but if he's determined to enter public service and wants to try to explain himself to a smaller electorate with a lot less at stake...I don't need to get upset at that.
this is presuming we don't keep getting ugly revelations, of course. which...we'll see.
Hey, I appreciate your take. I’m still on the fence about it all, but I’m not a Maine voter so my position doesn’t matter.
Leftists and progressives got out the gate early with the narrative that Mills’ entrance into the race was more of the supposed “establishment” conspiracy to prevent younger and more progressive “outsiders” from leading the party. So that’s an issue. As is Mills’ contribution to the perception of the party as a gerontocracy in which congresspersons die in office and leave us without crucial votes.
Can you clarify about the “racist” posts/comments that Platner allegedly made on social media? I looked at the article you linked to and it appeared to only refer to a comment that “white people are stupid and racist,” which I don’t think is a racist thing to say. It’s more like what I’d expect someone like Platner, who has a rough-around-the-edges persona, to say, which makes him sound like a normal person of a leftist bent.
Did he say something else racist?
I’m aware of the disrespectful comment about women servicemembers and s*xual assault.
He said Black people don’t tip. Which I think is racist.
Oh. Yeah. Not good.