In case anyone needs to hear this: No one owes time, attention, or loyalty to an abuser. Being a blood relation doesn't change that. It's okay if you need to set boundaries. It's okay to go low or no contact. It's okay to not share sensitive information. Now, keeping distance from people who voted for harm will often be necessary to avoid harm. That's not you being mean, or vindictive, or a sore loser, or however the person tries to negatively characterize your boundaries. That's you protecting yourself by declining to give them the opportunity to harm you - an opportunity MAGA enthusiastically voted for. When someone tells you who they are, believe them - and set boundaries accordingly.
I worry about people living in MAGA neighbourhoods who displayed Harris signs. We used to live in a place like that, and even before this recent empowerment, neighbors targeted us, just for our political views. Every authoritarian state has thrived because ordinary people informed on whomever the state marginalised. Americans are no different; they’re likely to become best in class. Few people have the means to uproot themselves to move to a safer area. This is why I worry.
I want to believe that some who voted for Trump did so out of genuine economic interests and didn't believe he is a threat. The problem is that if they could ignore all the warning signs, I don't trust them to believe it, or notice it, when the warnings turn into actions. I don't trust them not to slide down the slippery slope into just going along and deliberately looking the other way. Am I cutting people out right now? No. But I am keeping a cautious eye on them. (Fortunately, I cut out my extended family on my mother's side YEARS ago. Because no way in hell would I trust the cousin who named all of his kids after guns and painted a machine gun on the side of his truck.)
They voted for a rapist. That says all you need to know about their values. A woman’s control over her body means nothing to them. Even if they don’t report their family members, they may inadvertently pass along information to Maga cult members who will.
I’ve already had to cut ties with a friend from college who asked me to name which rights Trump has stripped from women and the LGBTQ+ community. I about hit the ceiling in rage.
Outside the last (sparsely attended) fascist inauguration, a couple of guys walking past me and my friend laughed and yelled, “What rights don’t you have?!” First off, the right not to be yelled at by random assholes, apparently.
My spouse is from what was once considered rural Minnesota. He is one of 7 siblings. 2 of his brothers are staunch republicans, no matter who the candidate may be. One brother says terrible things about democrat leaders whenever he is within hearing. He actually that Governor Dayton was not a human being.
I stopped going to family functions before 2020. I most certainly won’t be going in 2025 and beyond
I have read of East Germany before unification. The betrayal of family members for a pair of jeans or other individual rewards. That’s not our current situation, but the social influence of their Maga friends will lead some to sacrifice the privacy of family members and non-Maga friends. If only as proof of loyalty to Maga.
I keep expecting to hear more historical seeds and weeds to point us to what's coming.
For instance dozens of U.S. city police forces have been trained by Israel's IDF, the experts in zero-sum policing [good-guys/bad-guys social lens.]. Atlanta police have celebrated their training contract for decades. Over 60 'Cop City' plans are in the works here in the U.S., modeled after Israel's training vilages.
For instance the U.S. has trained dozens of countries' militaries in horrific practices in Fort Benning, Georgia, at the 'School of the Americas', until it was given a fresh coat of paint as the 'Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.' Otherwise known as death-squad training.
For instance the U.S. continues to send immigrants to Guantanamo, where the gift shop sells t-shirts boasting Welcome to Gitmo -- the Wetter the Better.
(Who will be sent there in the coming years?)
For instance the CIA has contracted out detainee torture for years to places like Syria and Egypt. Is it still hard to mention that practice on the discussion table?
I.e. I'm looking for attention and orientation to what has been in place for years, as a good indication of what will be applied to dissent in the near future.
This post of mine has led me on to recall the Native struggle against Line 3 pipeline through the Dakotas; just a few years ago.
They gathered nonviolently at the huge Standing Rock encampment and stood repeatedly en masse against the pipeline construction. Some of my white affinity group attended in support.
They were gassed in the face, sprayed with freezing water (in sub-zero winter), buzzed with helicopters and subjected to debilitating high-frequency sound -- experimental.
So recent, yet so forgotten, lessons in how terrified billionaires and their investments are of feeling swarmed by folks they view as the bottom of the hierarchy of worthlessness.
I think we need to recall that. It tells us what's coming.
Hi Noah, thanks for this. I’ve been struggling with my own MAGA relative situation, and this definitely helps. I had been following you for a couple of months, and I just paid for an annual subscription.
As always, I found your post very thoughtful. And as I often do, I posted it to our private FB groups in our rural and and overwhelmingly R town. (We organized well here and knocked on lots of doors and our vote crept down from 70-71% Trump to 69% this election.) Our FB groups are private for good reason. FB declared both of my postings of this thoughtful article "spam." This is happening in our town. People are unfriending those who voted for Trump. I thought your article very relevant. I am annoyed.
I was shocked to find out I have one person in my family who either voted Trump or didn't vote as a result of dislike of Harris and though we could not have an extended conversation about it there were possibly two reasons.
1) They possibly get at least some of their information from a shitty manipulative MAGA on-again off-again boyfriend (an immigrant BTW) who loves his guns and virtually everyone around them is apolitical and cynical or rightwing. 2) They are really broke, and struggling in the most overwhelmingly painful way to feed their kids, afford basic healthcare, and every basic, and they were influenced by the covid support, which was highest under Trump, plus inflation, which made them unable to afford enough food. 3) They do not pay any direct attention to the news, and only remember a lot of stuff from the angle of their economic stress, which is considerable, and their personal stress, which is mostly due to the economic stress in a tattered social fabric destroyed by the right, while somewhat unaware that this is largely why their life sucks so much.
Also they are a very 'pay attention to what's in front of them' thinker, not really someone who can back up and look at the big picture on a regular basis.
They live with very little hope. If you say 'a union can help you' they just sigh because the idea of anything structural being on their side seems like a pipedream, and doing MORE like working to get a union or pissing off their boss in any way is overwhelming to them.They tried to organize at work about 10 years ago, it didn't work, so now they don't hope for the solutions the left offers.
Single mom, mentally ill drug addict ex, kids with major problems. I don't talk about current events with them because bad shit is going down for them weekly, even daily. They have NO rightwing views. I mean, ZERO, except maybe it's OK for their jackass ex-military boyfriend to have a gun collection. They date him because they're extremely lonely, and he is emotionally supportive, and not directly abusive even if he is callous and selfish. ALL the men there are like him or worse. There's no other options but worse, when it comes to men.
They literally can't focus or keep a thought in their head. because they live in constant crisis. They don't have any conspiracy theory views, either. They only remember they had somewhat more money suddenly, and Trump was president then. Anyway, I can't even yell at them because it would be like kicking a puppy. I did express dismay but their distress at my dismay just showed they won't understand the real problem with their choice. Eventually, it will be obvious so there I don't need to win the argument as reality will give them clarity, as it has many times before. It's too late now though. Like it usually is.
It's very WTF. My mind was blown. Their life is going to be vastly worse and they didn't even understand this! They sincerely do not.
Their indifference to the harm the rest of their family will face astounded me. As it turns out, they are clueless about all of this.
If I'd lived closer, I could have dispelled some of their confusion about the economic and social nightmare Trump will create and how they'll lose their healthcare, but given the immediacy of their problems, I didn't get into explaining that inflation was global, though I did tell them this. I didn't think I would NEED to talk them out of right wing views--as they have none --just given they're not white, and how they live, they are pro choice, pro-LGBT, pro-trans, anti-racist, etc. Their kid experienced racial stereotyping, their closest friends' daughter is transgender, their kids' friends parents will be deported, as will the immigrants they defend at work.
It never dawned on me MAGA could infiltrate their thinking.
But they didn't have to. It turns out they know NOTHING about what Trump was going to do, nothing about anything Biden did or what Harris proposed. This also surprised me. They did not know what was really going on, AT ALL. They didn't know Trump plans to deport everyone. They thought 'this person is Mexican-American but an immigrant and they aren't afraid of Trump so how could Trump be a threat to immigrants if this person prefers Trump?'
The stupid shit you read people said in the paper? Where people said 'I had more money before?' This was how they were talking. I felt like dying.
I am mainly mentioning this because people seem unaware of how many millions of people live like this, are like this, and how their vote can be either surpressed or elicited merely by pointing out their situation, and pretending you will fix it. They're that desperate and that ill informed.
I understand how enraged and afraid people are, and I share it. So they will surely heap scorn upon these people. But to people like this, voting to improve their position in a structural way is an abstraction as far away as alpha centuri. The benefits to them personally have to be concrete. This is why the GOP fought so hard to prevent the ACA. They know this! They know if the Democrats delivered one unequivocal benefit, something that improved people's daily life, it would be politically very memorable. So if it can be hacked up and be subject to increases in premiums or something like this, it can be fodder for resentment. Same with student loan relief and everything else. People on the edge only remember they were given the promise of a meal and they got half a bagel instead.
I have no idea if anything is possible in the future for Dems to achieve in alleviating economic distress. The court will hamstring everything attempted. But as annoying as these kind of voters are, as blind and mistaken and subtly propagandized as they are, and likely unrepresentative of the average Trump voter, who may well be ready to rat out their friends to the abortion police--there are still MILLIONS of these other people and Trump either got their votes or got them not to vote this time.
So Democrats can't wait until 2026 or 2028--somehow we have to get information to people all the time. This is what the right is doing, constantly.
I know!!!! There was this momentary humane moment at the very start of the pandemic, and people were surprised and relieved by it. They got time off work, some money, etc. So I think this made a more distinct impression, but then recently people felt hardship from inflation --so it seems some people associate Trump with that first blip of help and Biden with their recent struggles. Memories and assessments that are not accurate.
“You are what you vote for.” The Law of Transitive Voting. I voted for more and better Biden, they voted for Nazis. They can disparage my choice, I can hate theirs.
In case anyone needs to hear this: No one owes time, attention, or loyalty to an abuser. Being a blood relation doesn't change that. It's okay if you need to set boundaries. It's okay to go low or no contact. It's okay to not share sensitive information. Now, keeping distance from people who voted for harm will often be necessary to avoid harm. That's not you being mean, or vindictive, or a sore loser, or however the person tries to negatively characterize your boundaries. That's you protecting yourself by declining to give them the opportunity to harm you - an opportunity MAGA enthusiastically voted for. When someone tells you who they are, believe them - and set boundaries accordingly.
I worry about people living in MAGA neighbourhoods who displayed Harris signs. We used to live in a place like that, and even before this recent empowerment, neighbors targeted us, just for our political views. Every authoritarian state has thrived because ordinary people informed on whomever the state marginalised. Americans are no different; they’re likely to become best in class. Few people have the means to uproot themselves to move to a safer area. This is why I worry.
yep; there's good reason to worry!
I want to believe that some who voted for Trump did so out of genuine economic interests and didn't believe he is a threat. The problem is that if they could ignore all the warning signs, I don't trust them to believe it, or notice it, when the warnings turn into actions. I don't trust them not to slide down the slippery slope into just going along and deliberately looking the other way. Am I cutting people out right now? No. But I am keeping a cautious eye on them. (Fortunately, I cut out my extended family on my mother's side YEARS ago. Because no way in hell would I trust the cousin who named all of his kids after guns and painted a machine gun on the side of his truck.)
!!!
They voted for a rapist. That says all you need to know about their values. A woman’s control over her body means nothing to them. Even if they don’t report their family members, they may inadvertently pass along information to Maga cult members who will.
I’ve already had to cut ties with a friend from college who asked me to name which rights Trump has stripped from women and the LGBTQ+ community. I about hit the ceiling in rage.
Outside the last (sparsely attended) fascist inauguration, a couple of guys walking past me and my friend laughed and yelled, “What rights don’t you have?!” First off, the right not to be yelled at by random assholes, apparently.
Hi Noah!
Subscribers can also become founding members. 😊
My spouse is from what was once considered rural Minnesota. He is one of 7 siblings. 2 of his brothers are staunch republicans, no matter who the candidate may be. One brother says terrible things about democrat leaders whenever he is within hearing. He actually that Governor Dayton was not a human being.
I stopped going to family functions before 2020. I most certainly won’t be going in 2025 and beyond
and then MAGA will be like, "why won't you be friends with us?!"
and thank you for the sub! so few people do the founding membership that I kind of forget about it!
It isn't just fascism: it is authoritarianism in general. Think of the web of informants the Stasi had.
I have read of East Germany before unification. The betrayal of family members for a pair of jeans or other individual rewards. That’s not our current situation, but the social influence of their Maga friends will lead some to sacrifice the privacy of family members and non-Maga friends. If only as proof of loyalty to Maga.
I keep expecting to hear more historical seeds and weeds to point us to what's coming.
For instance dozens of U.S. city police forces have been trained by Israel's IDF, the experts in zero-sum policing [good-guys/bad-guys social lens.]. Atlanta police have celebrated their training contract for decades. Over 60 'Cop City' plans are in the works here in the U.S., modeled after Israel's training vilages.
For instance the U.S. has trained dozens of countries' militaries in horrific practices in Fort Benning, Georgia, at the 'School of the Americas', until it was given a fresh coat of paint as the 'Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.' Otherwise known as death-squad training.
For instance the U.S. continues to send immigrants to Guantanamo, where the gift shop sells t-shirts boasting Welcome to Gitmo -- the Wetter the Better.
(Who will be sent there in the coming years?)
For instance the CIA has contracted out detainee torture for years to places like Syria and Egypt. Is it still hard to mention that practice on the discussion table?
I.e. I'm looking for attention and orientation to what has been in place for years, as a good indication of what will be applied to dissent in the near future.
All of which supports your essay here.
Just re-upped for another year.
This post of mine has led me on to recall the Native struggle against Line 3 pipeline through the Dakotas; just a few years ago.
They gathered nonviolently at the huge Standing Rock encampment and stood repeatedly en masse against the pipeline construction. Some of my white affinity group attended in support.
They were gassed in the face, sprayed with freezing water (in sub-zero winter), buzzed with helicopters and subjected to debilitating high-frequency sound -- experimental.
So recent, yet so forgotten, lessons in how terrified billionaires and their investments are of feeling swarmed by folks they view as the bottom of the hierarchy of worthlessness.
I think we need to recall that. It tells us what's coming.
Hi Noah, thanks for this. I’ve been struggling with my own MAGA relative situation, and this definitely helps. I had been following you for a couple of months, and I just paid for an annual subscription.
I’m glad it was helpful. And thank you!
As always, I found your post very thoughtful. And as I often do, I posted it to our private FB groups in our rural and and overwhelmingly R town. (We organized well here and knocked on lots of doors and our vote crept down from 70-71% Trump to 69% this election.) Our FB groups are private for good reason. FB declared both of my postings of this thoughtful article "spam." This is happening in our town. People are unfriending those who voted for Trump. I thought your article very relevant. I am annoyed.
yeah, facebook's decided it's spam. I doubt it has to do with content per se. It's probably just a glitch unfortunately.
I was shocked to find out I have one person in my family who either voted Trump or didn't vote as a result of dislike of Harris and though we could not have an extended conversation about it there were possibly two reasons.
1) They possibly get at least some of their information from a shitty manipulative MAGA on-again off-again boyfriend (an immigrant BTW) who loves his guns and virtually everyone around them is apolitical and cynical or rightwing. 2) They are really broke, and struggling in the most overwhelmingly painful way to feed their kids, afford basic healthcare, and every basic, and they were influenced by the covid support, which was highest under Trump, plus inflation, which made them unable to afford enough food. 3) They do not pay any direct attention to the news, and only remember a lot of stuff from the angle of their economic stress, which is considerable, and their personal stress, which is mostly due to the economic stress in a tattered social fabric destroyed by the right, while somewhat unaware that this is largely why their life sucks so much.
Also they are a very 'pay attention to what's in front of them' thinker, not really someone who can back up and look at the big picture on a regular basis.
They live with very little hope. If you say 'a union can help you' they just sigh because the idea of anything structural being on their side seems like a pipedream, and doing MORE like working to get a union or pissing off their boss in any way is overwhelming to them.They tried to organize at work about 10 years ago, it didn't work, so now they don't hope for the solutions the left offers.
Single mom, mentally ill drug addict ex, kids with major problems. I don't talk about current events with them because bad shit is going down for them weekly, even daily. They have NO rightwing views. I mean, ZERO, except maybe it's OK for their jackass ex-military boyfriend to have a gun collection. They date him because they're extremely lonely, and he is emotionally supportive, and not directly abusive even if he is callous and selfish. ALL the men there are like him or worse. There's no other options but worse, when it comes to men.
They literally can't focus or keep a thought in their head. because they live in constant crisis. They don't have any conspiracy theory views, either. They only remember they had somewhat more money suddenly, and Trump was president then. Anyway, I can't even yell at them because it would be like kicking a puppy. I did express dismay but their distress at my dismay just showed they won't understand the real problem with their choice. Eventually, it will be obvious so there I don't need to win the argument as reality will give them clarity, as it has many times before. It's too late now though. Like it usually is.
It's very WTF. My mind was blown. Their life is going to be vastly worse and they didn't even understand this! They sincerely do not.
Their indifference to the harm the rest of their family will face astounded me. As it turns out, they are clueless about all of this.
If I'd lived closer, I could have dispelled some of their confusion about the economic and social nightmare Trump will create and how they'll lose their healthcare, but given the immediacy of their problems, I didn't get into explaining that inflation was global, though I did tell them this. I didn't think I would NEED to talk them out of right wing views--as they have none --just given they're not white, and how they live, they are pro choice, pro-LGBT, pro-trans, anti-racist, etc. Their kid experienced racial stereotyping, their closest friends' daughter is transgender, their kids' friends parents will be deported, as will the immigrants they defend at work.
It never dawned on me MAGA could infiltrate their thinking.
But they didn't have to. It turns out they know NOTHING about what Trump was going to do, nothing about anything Biden did or what Harris proposed. This also surprised me. They did not know what was really going on, AT ALL. They didn't know Trump plans to deport everyone. They thought 'this person is Mexican-American but an immigrant and they aren't afraid of Trump so how could Trump be a threat to immigrants if this person prefers Trump?'
The stupid shit you read people said in the paper? Where people said 'I had more money before?' This was how they were talking. I felt like dying.
I am mainly mentioning this because people seem unaware of how many millions of people live like this, are like this, and how their vote can be either surpressed or elicited merely by pointing out their situation, and pretending you will fix it. They're that desperate and that ill informed.
I understand how enraged and afraid people are, and I share it. So they will surely heap scorn upon these people. But to people like this, voting to improve their position in a structural way is an abstraction as far away as alpha centuri. The benefits to them personally have to be concrete. This is why the GOP fought so hard to prevent the ACA. They know this! They know if the Democrats delivered one unequivocal benefit, something that improved people's daily life, it would be politically very memorable. So if it can be hacked up and be subject to increases in premiums or something like this, it can be fodder for resentment. Same with student loan relief and everything else. People on the edge only remember they were given the promise of a meal and they got half a bagel instead.
I have no idea if anything is possible in the future for Dems to achieve in alleviating economic distress. The court will hamstring everything attempted. But as annoying as these kind of voters are, as blind and mistaken and subtly propagandized as they are, and likely unrepresentative of the average Trump voter, who may well be ready to rat out their friends to the abortion police--there are still MILLIONS of these other people and Trump either got their votes or got them not to vote this time.
So Democrats can't wait until 2026 or 2028--somehow we have to get information to people all the time. This is what the right is doing, constantly.
This is all very bleak.
Fwiw, most of the aid was under Biden. People don’t necessarily remember the timing though.
I know!!!! There was this momentary humane moment at the very start of the pandemic, and people were surprised and relieved by it. They got time off work, some money, etc. So I think this made a more distinct impression, but then recently people felt hardship from inflation --so it seems some people associate Trump with that first blip of help and Biden with their recent struggles. Memories and assessments that are not accurate.
“You are what you vote for.” The Law of Transitive Voting. I voted for more and better Biden, they voted for Nazis. They can disparage my choice, I can hate theirs.