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Lou Doench's avatar

Having just finished listening to Andy Serkis lovingly read me Tolkien last year, I was struck once again how tight the storytelling is despite accusations of bloat. Everything’s there for a reason, even Tom. :)

My best friend and I are lifelong SFF readers and while we overlap a lot, my first love is Arda, his was Amber. We can both wade in each others end of the pool, but I don’t expect him to deep dive into R Scott Bakker while I allow him to summarize the latest China Mieville mindfuck.

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Robert Spottswood, M.A.'s avatar

“We can’t imagine a world without meaning…”

Wow. What a terrific encapsulation of a basic human need.

Reminds me of the descriptions of US military tortures, designed to prevent victims from knowing what is real anymore.

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DR Darke's avatar

::“We can’t imagine a world without meaning…”::

Here's what came to me about that, Robert Spottswood—isn't that what fuels the Alt-Right and their vast array of conspiracy theories? That it all has to, at some level, MEAN something?

It can't all just be "Shit Happens", or "Shit Happens because we've got far too many people and far too few resources, and all the inequity and injustice you're seeing is people reacting to that". So we imagine Trilateral Commissions with amazing secret powers, or other "Deep State"s that are both all-powerful and incompetent? (Something that was a lot easier to laugh at for its absurdity before Trump won a second term, and started dismantling the US Government like an especially-ambitious termite.)

I don't know, and Gods know I have my vast conspiracy theories. But maybe the search for meaning is the problem, rather than working with what we have....

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Robert Spottswood, M.A.'s avatar

A good and logical question, thank you.

What we learn when studying child development is that children need help finding the meaning of their experiences beginning at birth.

I.e., even before language, an infant is seeking safety from the chaos of both their inner thoughts and feelings, and the outer reality experience, neither of which they can control.

When a parent talks kindly to them, a baby can gain some meaning about who they are. “I exist because my parent thinks I exist.”

Hence, giving babies comfort and soothing talk, lets them know from the beginning that someone sees them, thinks about them and will provide comfort and safety, at least

Approximately when needed.

I.e., even into adulthood we are interpreting the interaction between our counter-intuitive thoughts and feelings, and the demands of outside reality. And we are doing so in terms of the meaning of who I am, and who gives me a sense of feeling understood and included.

James Garbarino has a nice model of how our early childhood need for meaning is carried forward into adulthood.

For instance, when we come into a room full of people, we immediately look around with the question of who we might know in the room. Are there people here who already share the meanings I have of who I am and what is true?

Sorry to run on!

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DR Darke's avatar

No, that's helpful, actually.

So it's necessary but it can also be abused? Like most things, honestly.

Right now I feel like the peasants in MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL trying to parse Sir Bedivere's "Logic"....

https://youtu.be/iGx1hiSJbCo?si=47Ana_gpPHXqePYO

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