Second: we’re not divesting because it’s a practical matter not ideological issue.
Israel is our base in the Middle East. Franky i support its existence apart from this latest debacle. It’s a pragmatic position.
I despise Netanyahu, but also I despise radical Islamists.
I abhor the death of innocents. But I do not want Biden to divest.
Third: if this is a deal breaker for you please know I want a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons and support a Palestinian state, but do not want Israel to be abandoned by us. Ever.
But it’s fine with me if you no longer follow me. Thanks.
I am not convinced that our alliance with Israel currently benefits us; I think there's a certain amount of inertia, and people like biden, who have been close to Israel for a long time, have trouble seeing that many of the pluses and minuses have changed.
Netanyahu also deliberately undermined the non radical Islamist option in order to kneecap the possibility of a Palestinian state (which is one of those things it's not clear that Biden is necessarily factoring in.)
I think the peace process probably requires American facilitation, so it would e bad to completely divest in that sense. I do think we should reconsider constantly blocking UN censure votes, and sending Israel aid even when they commit warcrimes, given that said aid is in violation of US and international law.
Support for Israel does not equate to support for Netanyahu and the religious extremists he made a deal with. Their fanaticism is as depraved as those of other religious extremists - anywhere.
I think it's...vacillating. I don't think he sees Palestinian lives as being of equal importance with Israeli lives. If he does I don't think his actions have really demonstrated it thus far.
Nope, that pretty much covers how I feel about it, Patris! I respect you right back, so that's not an issue.
Unfortunately, it's also what makes Netanyahu's behavior possible, because he knows that as well as we do. Bibi also knows that once the war's over he's toast—between the corruption trial (trials?) he was staring down the barrel of prior to October 7, 2023, and Hamas's attack "slipping past" 🤔 Israel's vaunted intelligence network, there's no way a peace treaty isn't the prelude to his political career ending in disgrace and probable prison time.
So it's in HIS best interest to keep things going for as long as possible, and if it expands into a war that engulfs the entire Middle East? 🤷♂️ Well, then—America AND Israel need him too much to remove him, amirite? (I can see Trump watching what Netanyahu does, and scribbling notes onto the back of his copy of "Project 2025" under the heading "How 2 Keep ME! Prezident 4 Life!") (Yes, I do hear Trump saying those words in a Tom Terrific voice—https://youtu.be/puD_w94RHuE?si=cYukmFlJCYCOljWC .)
For now, I think what Biden needs to do is tamp down the fires here at home with both students, administrators, and law enforcement—first by getting the cops to back the fuck off, and college administrators to stop calling them in at the first sign of a broken window. Then, he needs to address the nation about why the United States can't just—pull out of Israel and the Middle East altogether without making matters worse than they already are, and come up with some carrot-and-stick plan that will make the current Israeli Government stand down from attacking Palestinians, and discourage those other Middle Eastern governments/groups from jumping into the breach to raise their own hay.
In order words, Biden needs to act Presidential, in both a domestic and foreign policy way.
First: I respect you
Second: we’re not divesting because it’s a practical matter not ideological issue.
Israel is our base in the Middle East. Franky i support its existence apart from this latest debacle. It’s a pragmatic position.
I despise Netanyahu, but also I despise radical Islamists.
I abhor the death of innocents. But I do not want Biden to divest.
Third: if this is a deal breaker for you please know I want a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons and support a Palestinian state, but do not want Israel to be abandoned by us. Ever.
But it’s fine with me if you no longer follow me. Thanks.
I am not convinced that our alliance with Israel currently benefits us; I think there's a certain amount of inertia, and people like biden, who have been close to Israel for a long time, have trouble seeing that many of the pluses and minuses have changed.
Netanyahu also deliberately undermined the non radical Islamist option in order to kneecap the possibility of a Palestinian state (which is one of those things it's not clear that Biden is necessarily factoring in.)
I think the peace process probably requires American facilitation, so it would e bad to completely divest in that sense. I do think we should reconsider constantly blocking UN censure votes, and sending Israel aid even when they commit warcrimes, given that said aid is in violation of US and international law.
Support for Israel does not equate to support for Netanyahu and the religious extremists he made a deal with. Their fanaticism is as depraved as those of other religious extremists - anywhere.
We need to demand world court scrutiny for war crimes. Yes.
Carrot and stick to Israel—behave, and the aid will continue to flow; don't, and we'll cut you off!
We can’t cut them off. That can’t be the argument. But I do think we can demand Netanyahu get out.
I think we should stop giving them weapons until we can be sure they won't use them to commit war crimes!
I believe what we supply is understood to be for the defense of Israel.
right, but Israel is currently claiming that leveling gaza is a defensive move.
Biden did actually pause arm sales, which shows how worried he is about what Israel is likely to do in rafah, I think.
His concern for the lives of innocents is real - I believe that.
I think it's...vacillating. I don't think he sees Palestinian lives as being of equal importance with Israeli lives. If he does I don't think his actions have really demonstrated it thus far.
That’s not Biden, that’s Netanyahu. Depraved.
Netanyahu is horrible. I just haven't been impressed with Biden's urgency.
We need to stop the weapons, at least.
Nope, that pretty much covers how I feel about it, Patris! I respect you right back, so that's not an issue.
Unfortunately, it's also what makes Netanyahu's behavior possible, because he knows that as well as we do. Bibi also knows that once the war's over he's toast—between the corruption trial (trials?) he was staring down the barrel of prior to October 7, 2023, and Hamas's attack "slipping past" 🤔 Israel's vaunted intelligence network, there's no way a peace treaty isn't the prelude to his political career ending in disgrace and probable prison time.
So it's in HIS best interest to keep things going for as long as possible, and if it expands into a war that engulfs the entire Middle East? 🤷♂️ Well, then—America AND Israel need him too much to remove him, amirite? (I can see Trump watching what Netanyahu does, and scribbling notes onto the back of his copy of "Project 2025" under the heading "How 2 Keep ME! Prezident 4 Life!") (Yes, I do hear Trump saying those words in a Tom Terrific voice—https://youtu.be/puD_w94RHuE?si=cYukmFlJCYCOljWC .)
For now, I think what Biden needs to do is tamp down the fires here at home with both students, administrators, and law enforcement—first by getting the cops to back the fuck off, and college administrators to stop calling them in at the first sign of a broken window. Then, he needs to address the nation about why the United States can't just—pull out of Israel and the Middle East altogether without making matters worse than they already are, and come up with some carrot-and-stick plan that will make the current Israeli Government stand down from attacking Palestinians, and discourage those other Middle Eastern governments/groups from jumping into the breach to raise their own hay.
In order words, Biden needs to act Presidential, in both a domestic and foreign policy way.