Very true of disco, too. It didn't become mainstream until the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever became a blockbuster. Barry Gibb talked about the racism factor in a documentary about the band.
Separately, Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation is one of my all time favorite albums. Should be up there among the greatest of all time.
to some extent? the same process does happen with women, though I think it's not quite as structurally central. but women are often pushed to the margins of the genre. I was trying not to do that in this essay pretty deliberately!
Oh, I am fine with your race-based genre analysis here which I think is really excellent. I was just focused in on the "rock" category, and even the many White sub genres of "rock", especially (ugh) "classic rock". White women artists and Black women artists do tend to get folded into "softer categories" like pop and country and folk which are also race-segregated and audience-targeted. I know - a subject for another essay, another day. Again, a really excellent essay on race-based genre segregation. Would love to see the sales/financials and "awards" impact on this topic.
Here is a link to a YouTube video about payola that touches on these themes just a tiny bit. I think that payola had a lot to do with black artists not getting the same kind of exposure their white counterparts did because they had to pay for it and they had to have influence. Both of which I think unfortunately black record labels and artists lagged behind in due to cultural issues (racism if we're being direct). I'd love, love, love to see a deep dive on payola and the race divide.
I appreciate your sentiment ... As a rock 'n' roll fan, I think perhaps that Sister Rosetta Tharpe wants a word. 😁 It's not as if she's, you know, the mother and inventor of the genre, or anything.
And as a goth, specifically ... I think I hear Screamin' Jay Hawkins bursting out of his stage-prop coffin and screamin' "Ya forgot about me!"
It is true, though -- making genres about race is some of the dumbest shit ever to come from white people's racism-addled brains. I'd like to think I can be proud of my little subgenre, where the white supremacists, who I'm sad to say do exist, and do try to appropriate the subgenre to whiteness exclusively, get roundly trounced and bounced (at least on social media), usually in Screamin' Jay's name. 😁 Nazi goths fuck off.
"All those other artists also had white and Black roots—Chuck Berry’s “Maybellene” was based on the western swing tune “Ida Red” as just one example."
Berry was more precisely imitating the structure and pacing of "Ida Red", since his lyrical content and the tune he devised for his song were different than those of his source. "Ida Red" is about how the singer is "plumb fool" about the title girl; "Maybellene", in contrast, is about a girl doing her lover wrong by taking a car ride with another guy. But the alternating verses and choruses in the two songs are structured in a very similar fashion.
Here's a cool video about payola that touches briefly on Berry, Maybelline and Ida Red. Payola is an iceberg. I wondered on a black author's SubStack who also wrote about black disenfranchisement in the rock n roll genre today that I really wonder about how much payola was a part of that. Is it possible that black record companies and artists had much less money and influence to spread around in order to pay to play or be played? I think it's likely. I posted a link to Kahlil's article elsewhere in the comments. Here's that YouTube video:
You make a lot of good points. Have you listened to "The Wonder of Stevie" podcast series? I'm not really crazy about the guy who narrates it, but the subject matter is fascinating.
Very true of disco, too. It didn't become mainstream until the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever became a blockbuster. Barry Gibb talked about the racism factor in a documentary about the band.
Separately, Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation is one of my all time favorite albums. Should be up there among the greatest of all time.
Rock is not just White. It's White Male.
to some extent? the same process does happen with women, though I think it's not quite as structurally central. but women are often pushed to the margins of the genre. I was trying not to do that in this essay pretty deliberately!
Oh, I am fine with your race-based genre analysis here which I think is really excellent. I was just focused in on the "rock" category, and even the many White sub genres of "rock", especially (ugh) "classic rock". White women artists and Black women artists do tend to get folded into "softer categories" like pop and country and folk which are also race-segregated and audience-targeted. I know - a subject for another essay, another day. Again, a really excellent essay on race-based genre segregation. Would love to see the sales/financials and "awards" impact on this topic.
Here is a link to a YouTube video about payola that touches on these themes just a tiny bit. I think that payola had a lot to do with black artists not getting the same kind of exposure their white counterparts did because they had to pay for it and they had to have influence. Both of which I think unfortunately black record labels and artists lagged behind in due to cultural issues (racism if we're being direct). I'd love, love, love to see a deep dive on payola and the race divide.
https://youtu.be/dvWtaHFG7QI
I appreciate your sentiment ... As a rock 'n' roll fan, I think perhaps that Sister Rosetta Tharpe wants a word. 😁 It's not as if she's, you know, the mother and inventor of the genre, or anything.
And as a goth, specifically ... I think I hear Screamin' Jay Hawkins bursting out of his stage-prop coffin and screamin' "Ya forgot about me!"
It is true, though -- making genres about race is some of the dumbest shit ever to come from white people's racism-addled brains. I'd like to think I can be proud of my little subgenre, where the white supremacists, who I'm sad to say do exist, and do try to appropriate the subgenre to whiteness exclusively, get roundly trounced and bounced (at least on social media), usually in Screamin' Jay's name. 😁 Nazi goths fuck off.
"All those other artists also had white and Black roots—Chuck Berry’s “Maybellene” was based on the western swing tune “Ida Red” as just one example."
Berry was more precisely imitating the structure and pacing of "Ida Red", since his lyrical content and the tune he devised for his song were different than those of his source. "Ida Red" is about how the singer is "plumb fool" about the title girl; "Maybellene", in contrast, is about a girl doing her lover wrong by taking a car ride with another guy. But the alternating verses and choruses in the two songs are structured in a very similar fashion.
Here's a cool video about payola that touches briefly on Berry, Maybelline and Ida Red. Payola is an iceberg. I wondered on a black author's SubStack who also wrote about black disenfranchisement in the rock n roll genre today that I really wonder about how much payola was a part of that. Is it possible that black record companies and artists had much less money and influence to spread around in order to pay to play or be played? I think it's likely. I posted a link to Kahlil's article elsewhere in the comments. Here's that YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/dvWtaHFG7QI
You make a lot of good points. Have you listened to "The Wonder of Stevie" podcast series? I'm not really crazy about the guy who narrates it, but the subject matter is fascinating.
I haven't. I have a lot of trouble processing podcasts is the truth.
Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye
Wow, same day, two people saying the same thing from both perspectives. I love it.
https://historycanthide.substack.com/p/rock-music-has-always-been-black
Oh cool; thanks!
I love the music you shared. Well, the Billy Cobham one was maybe a bit too intense. I also think that Sly and the family Stone were great.