I’ve had bartenders and boyfriends butt in on my conversations with other fangirls to inform me that Eowyn obviously did not have the upper-body strength to bring down an oliphaunt with two swords and that Brienne could not have beaten the Hound, “realistically.”
It seemed urgent to them that I be made aware of this.
I’ve never had anyone interrupt me to make sure I understood that a well-trained male underdog character “couldn’t really do that.”
Can basically replace Naru for Rey and Dutch for Luke Skywalker and provide the same spot on commentary for Star Wars discourse. What’s wild is that the makers of Prey leaned into this while Disney did a full 180 on their biggest franchise and as a result made an absolutely awful movie.
I know misogyny is widespread in our society but I wonder how much of this fan backlash is just a very small, very online, but very loud group driving these larger narratives. And as with so much conservative bullshit, it gets laundered into the mainstream discourse because media outlets think it drives clicks. That’s not to say we shouldn’t push back when it does become part of the discourse. But I wonder if media outlets are doing them a big favor by elevating the bullshit and making studios think there’s more to it than there is, much like how Republicans can conjure up a whole media cycle out of something like a made up migrant caravan and get Democrats to make bad immigration policy because they think that’s what “everyone” wants.
This is awesome. And I can't help but think of bo-hunk-y Jack Reacher as another of these Male Mary Sues, with his foil being whichever super competent female he beds and leaves at the end of their adventures together.
It's a good post, a good topic, and I appreciate that it's familiar enough that much of what you discuss also shows up in the Wikipedia entry for Mary Sue (for example, the question of whether "Mary Sue" identifies a specific trope, or gets applied to every competent female character or whether James Kirk or James Bond are Mary Sue characters) -- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
This reminds me of a point I heard long ago -- in college maybe -- about violence by females.
That females can be as violent as males, but their violence tends not to be culturally endorsed; does not receive the recognition, validation or legitimization which male violence earns in a patriarchal culture. I.e., not a similar path to status.
Thus, violence by females is largely framed as personal.
I’ve had bartenders and boyfriends butt in on my conversations with other fangirls to inform me that Eowyn obviously did not have the upper-body strength to bring down an oliphaunt with two swords and that Brienne could not have beaten the Hound, “realistically.”
It seemed urgent to them that I be made aware of this.
I’ve never had anyone interrupt me to make sure I understood that a well-trained male underdog character “couldn’t really do that.”
Can basically replace Naru for Rey and Dutch for Luke Skywalker and provide the same spot on commentary for Star Wars discourse. What’s wild is that the makers of Prey leaned into this while Disney did a full 180 on their biggest franchise and as a result made an absolutely awful movie.
I know misogyny is widespread in our society but I wonder how much of this fan backlash is just a very small, very online, but very loud group driving these larger narratives. And as with so much conservative bullshit, it gets laundered into the mainstream discourse because media outlets think it drives clicks. That’s not to say we shouldn’t push back when it does become part of the discourse. But I wonder if media outlets are doing them a big favor by elevating the bullshit and making studios think there’s more to it than there is, much like how Republicans can conjure up a whole media cycle out of something like a made up migrant caravan and get Democrats to make bad immigration policy because they think that’s what “everyone” wants.
This is awesome. And I can't help but think of bo-hunk-y Jack Reacher as another of these Male Mary Sues, with his foil being whichever super competent female he beds and leaves at the end of their adventures together.
Well met!
That's one of those double standards that once you see you can't un see. I don't know whether to thank you or curse you!
Akin to the slut/stud double standard
LOL!
😀
It's a good post, a good topic, and I appreciate that it's familiar enough that much of what you discuss also shows up in the Wikipedia entry for Mary Sue (for example, the question of whether "Mary Sue" identifies a specific trope, or gets applied to every competent female character or whether James Kirk or James Bond are Mary Sue characters) -- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
This reminds me of a point I heard long ago -- in college maybe -- about violence by females.
That females can be as violent as males, but their violence tends not to be culturally endorsed; does not receive the recognition, validation or legitimization which male violence earns in a patriarchal culture. I.e., not a similar path to status.
Thus, violence by females is largely framed as personal.
Thanks for this analysis and memory prompt.
Celluloid heroes never feel any pain and celluloid heroes never really die…