Fat phobia is insidious because it’s fed to us in so many subtle ways, and like you mentioned, at this point in history, it’s mostly socially acceptable. I find it turned inward, when I agonize over my menopausal weight gain. I know logically all the studies that show how weight loss is a gamble. And the pressure comes from everywhere, the medical establishment especially. How to not have pain from your arthritis? Be thin.
I’m trying to focus on those things that improve quality of life- exercise for healthy bones and brain for example- rather than self denial and punishment for the imagined sin of weight gain. I spend way too much time thinking about this, criticizing myself, and trying to find acceptance. I know the fat phobia I’ve been taught is wrong, but still I turn it on myself.
And, to be clear, I am not a fat person. I’m merely less thin. I mention this because I think we people (especially women) are constantly self critical, measuring ourselves against some imaginary ideal, even if we truly don’t want to, and don’t believe our with resides in our flesh. This fat phobia has been forced on us since we were children, and it’s incredibly difficult to get rid of it.
The way our culture (we, including me) puts our bodies at the center of worthiness is the clearest sign to me of our materialism. I wonder if this is another symptom of late stage capitalism, and if we can overcome it.
I feel like this is comment TMI, but for humans in this society, this is deeply personal.
Thank you for your insights into this book. I’m putting it on the list.
The whole issue presents a different kind of problem for me. Ultimately we have to disambiguate fat shaming from health issues. I used to be about 90 pounds heavier than I am now. I went to my doctor for some lower G.I. issues and had to have some blood work done. The results were that my cholesterol was through the roof, and I had borderline type two diabetes. My blood pressure was dangerously high and I had developed pretty severe sleep apnea. After I lost the pounds, my cholesterol landed into a kind of safe zone although still high, my blood sugar was stabilized and my blood pressure also landed in a much safer albeit still high category. I felt better, and my energy levels were better. ( the sleep apnea remained but I now have a love affair with my CPAP )
So that part of me can't NOT recommend anyone bringing themselves into a healthier weight within the category of what qualifies as healthy for THAT individual. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the shaming kind of dovetails into health concerns. Such that someone like me who used to be morbidly obese sees other people who are morbidly obese and still
makes implied moral judgments based on health issues. And simply because I know my health improved when my weight was brought down into something that was contextually viable for myself. I hate that I still make those judgements because I feel like a hypocrite.
But one of the reasons I was compelled to lose all of that weight was because of family and friends who were GENUINELY concerned for my declining health, and THEY were put into an uncomfortable position of looking like fat shamers simply fir bringing up my weight.
So it all comes down to: is this a healthy weight for you? Because there are ultimately very unhealthy ways to be overweight, and I was a poster child for that. And the concerns of my family and friends may have literally saved my life.
I'm not sure what to do with that information.
Edit: i'm still not thin, but exactly where I need to be for my health. So I'm definitely not advocating for thinness
Thanks for the review, and the breakdown. I've been hearing a lot about the connection between anti-Black and anti-fat bigotry, and it's still tough for me to grok. Is it just that as white society began to build its racial hierarchy, any tiny difference was seized upon by folks thirsty for justification of their moral superiority? I suppose that would feed in to obsessions with IQ and other metrics of hegemony.
Yeah; I think scientists were looking for differences to categorize to shore up racial hierarchies, and if there weren't really differences there they created them.
Thank you for inspiring me to repost one of my favorite poems about being fat. It was horrible at every weight stage, and I’ve never not noticed. Involuntarily losing 140 pounds really gave me an eyeful of what people thought of me and my weight at every stage. I was told constantly they were “concerned about my health”at my fatttest, and called healthy to my face as a thin person.
Like they would hold me up as some kind of success story, but I would have been fine being fat and still being a walking biped with full use of my hands and arms and legs. But I didn’t get to choose. That I am the rare person who gained back 20 (very necessary!) pounds and left it at that for six years isn’t a sign of “control”. I’m just sick. Always have been. I gained weight because of medications I took for my health and then I lost weight because I needed other medications and wasn’t getting them. All the while, judgmentalism.
Whew man this one is a banger. I always admire your ability to cut to the quick of an issue. (Also, I think I need to add Kate's book to my reading list!)
Orbach, "Fat is a Feminist Issue", published nearly 50 years ago, remains valid today, and remains the touch stone for any subsequent robust research or writing about the cultural and medical moralizing about weight.
This isn't a recent or new issue. Women's bodies have always been policed, first by churches and society more broadly, then by medical science and society more broadly.
Did Manne really write an entire book with no citations from or reference to this and other seminal works?
Good to know! Especially since it's women's bodies that are policed, and the subject of moralizing, rather than bodies of colour. For women of colour, there's the triple whammy of social and political and medical scrutiny.
Fat phobia is insidious because it’s fed to us in so many subtle ways, and like you mentioned, at this point in history, it’s mostly socially acceptable. I find it turned inward, when I agonize over my menopausal weight gain. I know logically all the studies that show how weight loss is a gamble. And the pressure comes from everywhere, the medical establishment especially. How to not have pain from your arthritis? Be thin.
I’m trying to focus on those things that improve quality of life- exercise for healthy bones and brain for example- rather than self denial and punishment for the imagined sin of weight gain. I spend way too much time thinking about this, criticizing myself, and trying to find acceptance. I know the fat phobia I’ve been taught is wrong, but still I turn it on myself.
And, to be clear, I am not a fat person. I’m merely less thin. I mention this because I think we people (especially women) are constantly self critical, measuring ourselves against some imaginary ideal, even if we truly don’t want to, and don’t believe our with resides in our flesh. This fat phobia has been forced on us since we were children, and it’s incredibly difficult to get rid of it.
The way our culture (we, including me) puts our bodies at the center of worthiness is the clearest sign to me of our materialism. I wonder if this is another symptom of late stage capitalism, and if we can overcome it.
I feel like this is comment TMI, but for humans in this society, this is deeply personal.
Thank you for your insights into this book. I’m putting it on the list.
The book is great; definitely recommend it. She addresses a lot of the issues you talk about here directly.
The whole issue presents a different kind of problem for me. Ultimately we have to disambiguate fat shaming from health issues. I used to be about 90 pounds heavier than I am now. I went to my doctor for some lower G.I. issues and had to have some blood work done. The results were that my cholesterol was through the roof, and I had borderline type two diabetes. My blood pressure was dangerously high and I had developed pretty severe sleep apnea. After I lost the pounds, my cholesterol landed into a kind of safe zone although still high, my blood sugar was stabilized and my blood pressure also landed in a much safer albeit still high category. I felt better, and my energy levels were better. ( the sleep apnea remained but I now have a love affair with my CPAP )
So that part of me can't NOT recommend anyone bringing themselves into a healthier weight within the category of what qualifies as healthy for THAT individual. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the shaming kind of dovetails into health concerns. Such that someone like me who used to be morbidly obese sees other people who are morbidly obese and still
makes implied moral judgments based on health issues. And simply because I know my health improved when my weight was brought down into something that was contextually viable for myself. I hate that I still make those judgements because I feel like a hypocrite.
But one of the reasons I was compelled to lose all of that weight was because of family and friends who were GENUINELY concerned for my declining health, and THEY were put into an uncomfortable position of looking like fat shamers simply fir bringing up my weight.
So it all comes down to: is this a healthy weight for you? Because there are ultimately very unhealthy ways to be overweight, and I was a poster child for that. And the concerns of my family and friends may have literally saved my life.
I'm not sure what to do with that information.
Edit: i'm still not thin, but exactly where I need to be for my health. So I'm definitely not advocating for thinness
Thanks for the review, and the breakdown. I've been hearing a lot about the connection between anti-Black and anti-fat bigotry, and it's still tough for me to grok. Is it just that as white society began to build its racial hierarchy, any tiny difference was seized upon by folks thirsty for justification of their moral superiority? I suppose that would feed in to obsessions with IQ and other metrics of hegemony.
Yeah; I think scientists were looking for differences to categorize to shore up racial hierarchies, and if there weren't really differences there they created them.
Thank you for inspiring me to repost one of my favorite poems about being fat. It was horrible at every weight stage, and I’ve never not noticed. Involuntarily losing 140 pounds really gave me an eyeful of what people thought of me and my weight at every stage. I was told constantly they were “concerned about my health”at my fatttest, and called healthy to my face as a thin person.
Like they would hold me up as some kind of success story, but I would have been fine being fat and still being a walking biped with full use of my hands and arms and legs. But I didn’t get to choose. That I am the rare person who gained back 20 (very necessary!) pounds and left it at that for six years isn’t a sign of “control”. I’m just sick. Always have been. I gained weight because of medications I took for my health and then I lost weight because I needed other medications and wasn’t getting them. All the while, judgmentalism.
https://open.substack.com/pub/rebeccawilova/p/you-look-at-me-and-you-know-everything?r=39q3f&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcome=true
thank you for sharing this Rebecca.
Whew man this one is a banger. I always admire your ability to cut to the quick of an issue. (Also, I think I need to add Kate's book to my reading list!)
https://youtu.be/gbp1du33l0c?si=QdeEHIiYA6jPu-zb
If you watch one thing....
I can't watch it again because it is so fucking chilling and spot on. But fuck.
Orbach, "Fat is a Feminist Issue", published nearly 50 years ago, remains valid today, and remains the touch stone for any subsequent robust research or writing about the cultural and medical moralizing about weight.
This isn't a recent or new issue. Women's bodies have always been policed, first by churches and society more broadly, then by medical science and society more broadly.
Did Manne really write an entire book with no citations from or reference to this and other seminal works?
I'm not sure why you'd assume she didn't cite any other work?! Orbach is cited.
Good to know! Especially since it's women's bodies that are policed, and the subject of moralizing, rather than bodies of colour. For women of colour, there's the triple whammy of social and political and medical scrutiny.