As a woman looking at the painting, I don't see any of that! I see a woman who is tired, and relieved that she doesn't have any clients right now to service. She can flop on the bed any old way instead of striking a sexy pose. Maybe she's thinking about masturbating, but she's too tired to be bothered just yet. She's going to have a little rest first. Of course, a man painted this, so maybe your interpretation is close to what Toulouse-Lautrec was thinking.
fwiw, my wife looked at it and very much thought the woman was masturbating. so not sure it's just a man/woman divide!
I do think the painting is playing with the question of whether or not she has a client...is Toulouse-Lautrec there? there are indications he is (not least that someone has to be there to paint that picture!) but of course we can't see him.
Love your essay Noah. I think you are right on the mark about lonely Man. Also, not sure what this says about me but when I first looked at the painting I immediately thought it was about masterbation. The hand on the thigh is the focal point of the image.
I mean, I think in context, it's about Toulouse-Lautrec being unable to find the kind of high status woman he feels he deserves (or feels like he feels like he should deserve.) The way that finding a partner is less about the partner than about impressing other men...idk. I think that fits with incels.
Ah, I see. (Apologies for the double negative above in the question.) That makes sense. Yes, now I understand!
The whole description of him being there, which is obvious, and most likely instructing her to touch herself, is just so uncomfortable! That is, for back then, I suppose, incel behavior. Things of that nature occur now, but in a digital fashion.
It's uncomfortable! His paintings were at least somewhat controversial at the time for just this kind of reason!
It's interesting that the more squicky aspects are sometimes erased or glossed over in discussions of the work. As I said, the one discussion I saw online very much did not seem aware that it's about masturbation (in various senses.)
Oh, yes! It reminds me of Courbet's l'Origine du Monde! Talk about controversial, even for today's standards. Or John Singer Sargent's Madame X, which we think is so tame.
But with your discussion of this piece, it's so obvious how erotic and suggestive it is -- that can't be overlooked if one is sensitive to what the artists of that time were doing.
As a woman looking at the painting, I don't see any of that! I see a woman who is tired, and relieved that she doesn't have any clients right now to service. She can flop on the bed any old way instead of striking a sexy pose. Maybe she's thinking about masturbating, but she's too tired to be bothered just yet. She's going to have a little rest first. Of course, a man painted this, so maybe your interpretation is close to what Toulouse-Lautrec was thinking.
fwiw, my wife looked at it and very much thought the woman was masturbating. so not sure it's just a man/woman divide!
I do think the painting is playing with the question of whether or not she has a client...is Toulouse-Lautrec there? there are indications he is (not least that someone has to be there to paint that picture!) but of course we can't see him.
Love your essay Noah. I think you are right on the mark about lonely Man. Also, not sure what this says about me but when I first looked at the painting I immediately thought it was about masterbation. The hand on the thigh is the focal point of the image.
I don’t think it’s subtle!
I don't think, and I assume you'd agree, this image does not illicit anything about the incel, correct?
I mean, I think in context, it's about Toulouse-Lautrec being unable to find the kind of high status woman he feels he deserves (or feels like he feels like he should deserve.) The way that finding a partner is less about the partner than about impressing other men...idk. I think that fits with incels.
Ah, I see. (Apologies for the double negative above in the question.) That makes sense. Yes, now I understand!
The whole description of him being there, which is obvious, and most likely instructing her to touch herself, is just so uncomfortable! That is, for back then, I suppose, incel behavior. Things of that nature occur now, but in a digital fashion.
It's uncomfortable! His paintings were at least somewhat controversial at the time for just this kind of reason!
It's interesting that the more squicky aspects are sometimes erased or glossed over in discussions of the work. As I said, the one discussion I saw online very much did not seem aware that it's about masturbation (in various senses.)
Oh, yes! It reminds me of Courbet's l'Origine du Monde! Talk about controversial, even for today's standards. Or John Singer Sargent's Madame X, which we think is so tame.
But with your discussion of this piece, it's so obvious how erotic and suggestive it is -- that can't be overlooked if one is sensitive to what the artists of that time were doing.
It reminds me a good bit of Manet's Olympia too...which I wrote about here, if you're interested. https://www.everythingishorrible.net/p/you-can-use-me-the-aesthetics-of